• @freedalas Effort is effort, Anthony also slaved away in the movie industry to get to where he is today. Instead of thinking in terms of TV industry or movie industry, etc it should be inclusive as in the whole acting industry and thereby whoever can showcase the best acting within that media of that particular year deserves the reward. In this case, it was just obvious that Anthony would win out because there was quite some distance between even him and Wayne Lai performance-wise. The other factor you mentioned is the passage of time so unless TVB starts banning people with umpteenth years from winning then the award naturally gravitates towards those with age unless the individual is such a talented prodigy in acting. If we eliminate movie kings from winning and then all the awards start polarizing towards another group of TVB veterans or movie veterans who film with TVB should we start banning them from winning awards as well? After that we start banning the people in their 40s form winning because it would be unfair to the 30s and 20s? What about two nominations in their 30s but one was a child actor giving them an extra 10-15 years of slaving away? More deserving? Nobody has time for a viable situation like best actor in the age category of 20-30, 30-40, etc. Award ceremonies would be stretched to unbelievably long hours. I get where you're coming from though but not realistic when the other solution would look like a PR nightmare. If for some reason Ruco wins best actor for movies 20 years from now, I wouldn't say just because he filmed one movie that year it would be unfair to the 40-year old actor who worked in movies his entire career. It would be based on who had the better performance to win as the award should be largely based on that merit alone.
  • @tvbgodx Heh, gold star for getting that! I guess death by falling (heavy/hard) object then, we wouldn't want the prediction extrapolation too far off course from the realm of real in TVB.
  • Prediction for Bowie's ending is.... a log will fall down and KO him.
  • @jjwong This actually reminded me of that Kwok Fung interview and his more in-depth explanation of TVB treatment towards their employees. I think in an overall context, it has probably gotten to the point where these guys are just working for their paycheck rather than having any passion for their work so they're just wanting to wrap it up and go home ASAP. I still remember that tidbit where Kwok Fung was describing how the leads would be sleeping but people who were in at 6am would be all dressed up and have to sit around doing nothing and if they tried to complain it would be a universal silence on them nor could they leave. It was as if they were treated like they had no lives on their own. Obviously, when you throw rookies like that into the fray you're also going to get people who feel like their careers are just gonna stall alongside the terrible working conditions. As he put it, who would give their life for the company anymore under such cold treatment and unfair circumstances. Negativity would breed more negativity and pretty soon everyone will more or less be affected by apathy while on the job, something you can't really have in this line of work.
  • Story should've probably started around here. Three months before fated big battle and CPT has to surrender following history or whatever TVB imagines his new history will be. This should've been a much earlier episode to keep people watching. As for brilliant commander, that was absolutely poor on his part and only plot armor saved him. TVB decided all ships are armed with cannons, including that rowboat-like ship Cheng Yat and his wife were on. It would've been absolutely disastrous if the pirates formed a line of battle and leisurely sunk their ships while they were on fire. It would've been smooth sailing into the naval base unopposed and he would've deprived the base defense of marines that had to abandon ship. If it was a delay tactic or served as some kind of rile for the other two naval commanders pride in order to resolve their defense at the base then it would've been better. It would've been smarter if he used any gunpowder he had and hid it in the decks below to either blow the ships when boarded or use them as fire ships to ram the enemy fleet when near. His weaker numbers could've been an advantage since the pirates would've been overconfident, that would mark him as brilliant by turning certain defeat into victory. But that was a terrible play he made if logic were involved and CPT was actually competent. Since gunpowder is involved, that fire wall was useless. Agreed Siu Fu just stands there like a log. Vice needs to do something to help out, give him some advice since he has naval combat experience.
  • @coralie Absolutely, I think any drama (not just TVB) requires giving up some logic and rationality as the trade-off for an immersive storyline should there be an actual story intact. I just call things as they are, I did the same for Eye in the Sky (which also had half its show running in a nonsensical circle) and Empress of China, it was just that obvious to me right away how they would play out. I got the last 5 episodes or so of this drama done in about 90 minutes, the power of streaming and efficient watching. To be fair, is this absolutely horrendous? Nope, on a crash course but hasn't crashed yet. Though flip side, this is something you would expect as an run of the mill drama they churn out throughout the year, not an anniversary. That's insulting to the viewers if they start downgrading their standards for anniversaries which should have at least a higher bar.
  • @coralie The recent time travel ones TVB did was either the Esther Kwan/Bobby Au Yeung one or Three Kingdoms RPG. If memory serves me right then we're at Jiaqing fourteenth year (1809). Cheng Yi should be dead, CPT and his ex-wife should've been married by now. So history is out the window from the moment Grace landed and aside from the historical names Jiaqing, CPT, Cheng Yi and Chin Shih, I believe everyone else is more or less fictional. Pirates feel more modern than Grace (she's expectionally slow at adjusting), Tony and Grace's interaction has largely been two elementary kids having a mud-sling of words. Half the show is nonsensical, waste of time. Kelly Fu could be written out and Ruco's subordinate could do her tasks and it would be even better, she just sidetracks his story progression. Can't believe this is an anniversary drama, who thinks up of this stuff anyway? "yay yay yay" while waving her arm in the air? QC failed miserably. This is shaping up to be a low flat B line with a blip in the middle when they get near the meeting and engagement part before resuming its path to the finish near the low end. I've been skipping a lot to get to the story driven parts. A third of the way in and I'm already feeling they should've made this into a twenty episode drama instead.
  • @minyveg Behind the scene stuff aside, arrogance was definitely a part of it. Not something you want when dealing with an ideological government, see Jimmy Lai as an example, wealthy tycoon that wasn't invited to Beijing for closed door meeting and was at the forefront of the Umbrella Revolution. I doubt though that China has their hand in every little matter so it's typical bureaucracy at work, lower guy trying to please the higher guy, etc. While I have doubts about him as a person, I do believe he's got good business sense. After all, he did build his wealth against tremendous odds.
  • @funnlim If we just compare to TVB then I agree that China is probably equal to or more than a match for them currently unless something eye-popping is left near award ceremony time but I doubt it since the new guy in charge specializes in numbers, not creativity. I agree you can screw up wuxia for sure, I'm also saying though it's harder to screw up when you have a literature piece as your base. Someone out to mess with your work, well, tough luck copyright isn't a strong point in China. Though recently they have started to purchase rights to shows like Amazing Race so maybe the old half-baked knock off copying is coming to an end. Though risk-taking, I'm unsure as the proper term for China television. In my mind, I see risk-taking as you have something to lose but they can always revert back if they don't pass certain government check points or if the audience is dissatisfied. The thing to remember is that, like the film industry, they're still learning from the HK guys who migrated north. It's probably easy to see the stars but there's also been a lot of other talent that's gone up so I think the television industry is still fledging and experimenting rather than risk-taking since they're essentially taking all that creativity and seeing what fits alongside the rules imposed upon them. We're talking about people who have lived through the HK golden age of television so they're bringing with them tons of bottled up ideas TVB probably never let them work on. Great example was The Menu of course, TVB flat out refused that but HKTV allowed it and the success of it still continues for its crew presently. Dunno if I mentioned it before, but losing the younger generation is the first thing that will happen soon to TVB which means shaky future. More importantly, what I believe is that TVB will soon turn into a springboard for newcomers before migration up north. I just don't see it being relevant anymore once China is done experimenting and soaking up all the ideas that previous HK talent had to offer. It's also probably why TVB isn't keen on creativity but rather just flowing with China and earning the $ rather than trying to be something special again, that's what I meant by self-censorship. The only real barrier currently is that the older generation is still in charge of the power, but a younger generation of Chinese coming back from overseas should see a shift in policy. China has shifted back to democratic centralism so appeasement of the people is a pretty high priority these days, people just don't realize this because the stigma of Communist is still attached to the party name.
  • @funnlim All perspective, if the viewer in question only has a limit of chinese drama then it would look like there's risk taking but if they're use to international standards then it only looks like catch up. Circumventing the great firewall is as easy as 1-2-3 and the younger generation grew up on the Internet which doesn't wait for anybody so the amount of time it takes to reach that level means internationally shift can occur. The bigger question then is can they project themselves outside of their confinement like Korea and Japan or will they be boxed in domestically. The answer lies with the government on that, they tried experimenting with loosening of power in the stock market and look where that got them. Wuxia series are hard to miss as many of them are adapted from established sources so it's really hard to screw up on a well written literature piece. I have yet to see a great drama where they didn't borrow from sources but admittedly, I don't watch as many since the American golden age of television still hasn't come to an end yet. llwy12 has an interview piece of Kwok Fung as to how screwed up TVB really is, perhaps the monopolistic position has corrupted them too far and the power has made them arrogant so the backlash now is severe though like ATV many of us saw it coming years ago. Again, the internet won't wait for anybody and despite not having its license, the buzz has been all about HKTV this year after a pitiful 2015 for TVB. They don't need young authors either, they need to allow creativity to flow and stop holding the reins so tight, it's almost like they're practicing self-censorship on themselves currently when they're in a unique position within China to actually be as creative as they want without big brother looking over them. That and based on the interview, they seriously need to treat their employees with more respect cause that little difference in HKTV and TVB has made it obvious who can churn out quality. iirc, Ricky Wong sent people to the west to learn before mingling it into their newer series, the older ones still have a bit of TVB as people came over to their station fresh still but that small time period allowed them to produce some great hits this year.
  • The last 3 series they have are all on my watch list, all seem like potential winners in my book. Since I only watch them during dinner with the family, will have to see how gory it gets. :D
  • @peanutbutterjelly I always think of a random discussion as me meeting someone with a thought that peaks my curiosity and pulling up a seat to casually discuss over a drink. The internet sucks at conveying tone so please don't feel like I'm being defensive or offensive in any way, I edit to a more neutral tone because of how easy the message gets jitter on the interweb. After reading that article, Superman would fit more as being all perfect for Gary Stu. That same discussion happened years ago and Batman is so emotionally broken and the only pure thing about him is no guns and no killing, what makes Batman so compelling was that he's close to being one but never is. Batman never wins if you think about it, he wins individual fights but Gotham only gets worse and as time progresses, it all results in a net loss for him albeit a slower rate. Disregarding the fact that he can never have a normal life, he also alieniates friends and foes alike the more time goes on. He has his admirers and allies, some like him but the majority respect and fear him, that's far from saying he's a likeable guy, its just better to be his friend rather than his enemy. Superman on the flip side actually has godlike powers, pretty much everyone likes him as a poster boy for good, etc. and even develops new powers when needed courtesy of our yellow sun and does no wrong. The rare times he's ever near bad or downright evil is either a passing moment of weakness or in the alternate universe, surprisingly Batman jumps on board without much of a debate whereas the others go through some moral conflict which is part of the analysis made by Joker that Batman and him are only a thread apart showing just how deeply scarred he really is. Did I mention Superman is also smarter than Batman? I see what you mean though by it being problematic through that article, but I think the bigger problem at hand is how ingrained people are in trying to be politically correct. It reminds me of the Ellen Pao case that businesses need to market itself as politically correct and be presentable at the cost of promoting people who aren't nearly qualified. Society has become too sensitive to issues like sexism, racism and feminism and everyone wants to be on the right side of things so the whip comes out cracking when anything perceived incorrect is immediately stamped out. Except this has also given rise to the victim mentality and other things for people to exploit and hide behind which completely changes the original meaning and what the leaders had fought for. I also agree that being Mary Sue doesn't make it automatically bad or one dimensional, I'm merely focusing on the point that it is what it is and there's nothing wrong with it. We shouldn't let a negative connotation or stigma surrounding the word refrain us from using it, as long as there's sound support as to why you use it then no one can really fault you for having an opinion.
  • @alluka Oh, I agree. The point was commercial =/= critical success. There's a difference for sure between we made a lot of money and this was satisfying on a creative level. This is the same, as you said, of Transformers and Ultron was only made because it had to be, Whedon was already swamped with A.O.S. But I do like how we're moving off of Iron Man now and Cap has the spotlight now, it brings a more earth-bound feel going into Phase Three and he has more of a tie-in to his other work.
  • @funnlim You do realize that blurb you pulled out was directed towards specific stories that have them when they were Internet novels, right? If I'm unclear on that, I'll clear that up with that and mention once more that authors themselves realize this too but since it's a means of living, they don't mind it. Though it's important to mention that Zhen Huan got a lot of flak for the first half of the show from critics and Internet users. I agree that sticking to one's principles isn't Mary Sue but overly being stuck to being good is because of the obvious of whom she is. The generalized modern definition is 'fan fiction' as the first part followed by typical traits that make for poor character development and too perfect to be real. Perhaps you're agreeing with me in a different way, but an idol itself is a tailored perfect image for followers to worship. Wu Zetian in the show is, as I said, a fan fiction (tailored image of her) insert because none of her personality is anything near her real self. We're talking about a historical figure well documented to have willingly wanting to seduce the emperor and not a starry-eyed lost girl whom the emperor suddenly felt a connection to. The first part with Li shimin already borders fantasy whereas she was kept at a distance in reality though praised (there was a sexual relationship too). Not too much to ask for a bit more three dimensional personality and a little creativity. I'm not sure what they will cut in the TVB ver, since it's 70 episodes? compared to the 96 episodes but you're looking for at least 80% of the episodes to be the same with next to no development and her suddenly becoming brilliant enough to enter battle, practically skilled in everything imaginable, doing things that make you question the logic of the show, etc. TVB won't die, I'm not even sure how some people can think that unless they get ATV level management. The government has also ensured its survival but they will be ditching HK soon anyway as a monopoly will lead them down a dark tunnel so targeting China alone makes good business sense, HKTV has too much political undertone in their dramas puts doubt into approval for a license. Not really sure where anti-tvb came from but I do remember you posting something similar before iirc. I'll be one to admit HKTV has had average dramas to date as well, Beyond the Rainbow won't be a great story/script but will have fine acting from the cast similar to how TBONTB cast really brought itself to life. The main problem I see, again, is that the fight for the next generation isn't swinging in their favor because of the status quo they keep maintaining in their productions and its been clear its not what the audience has been wanting. The hits versus misses so far though is definitely in HKTV's favor, quick look at HK Golden and the insane amount of coverage for The Menu (who also have ties to their other critically well received dramas) cast more or less proves that. Why would anyone diss OTB, that series was so good. Even if it wasn't top notch memorable, it was definitely good enough to be up among some of the best stuff.
  • @peanutbutterjelly I don't particularly find it sexist, at least not if you apply it correctly and this can swing both ways. If someone goes around throwing the term often then yes, it forms a basis for potential misogyny or misandry if other angles are factored in. Wu Zetian being Mary Sue here is because she's been idealized by the script to the point she pretty much plays out like a fan fiction insert. Aside from the typical traits, you've got even more out of place things like her donning on military gear and being on a battlefield. [SPOILER ALERT] They pretty much keep this going till very late into the show and clearly avoid anything to do with her actual rule which is a more entertaining aspect of her actual self [END OF SPOILER]. For a historical figure that has been well documented to the point you can form a believable personality, this character is way off in la la land. If you also noticed, I said "the millionth time"? Its because a lot of these things is part of a larger trend that has been affecting adolescent girls. Now that China has opened up, the maturity rate of children has accelerated. This is all well documented and if you look at interviews with authors who primarily focus on Mary Sue type stories like The Legend of Zhen Huan, Magic Imperial Concubine, etc. They're aware of it but it pays the bills so why not? Some of them have even divulged how at ages as young as 10 that a large portion of their female classmates would write this but they were the ones who kept on writing while the rest gave up. As for Gary Stu, they're there too. Most noticeable was Wesley Crusher from Star Trek: TNG where he played out to be a deus ex machinima before they scrapped him by giving him powers beyond the comprehension of humanity. Yang Guo was three dimensional enough that he wouldn't count and he couldn't do everything, it took him a long time before he reached hero status. Louis Koo in ASTIP you will have to dissect carefully, because he actually traveled back in time then it makes sense for him to be the focal point of everybody given his conspicuous way of doing things. Words themselves aren't offensive, if our aim is for them to be hurtful towards someone than yes, that would fit the bill. As long as they're backed up when it's murky or if something is blantently obvious that it fits then I see no problem with saying what it is for what it is.
  • @looooooooooo Commercial success =/= good movie. The Avengers: Age of Ultron is a commercial success but it's only mediocre. Why? Because Josh Whedon didn't really want to write for it and the movie is only meant as a stepping stone to end MCU Phase Two and prepare for Phase Three which includes Infinity Wars in 2018/2019 as well as setting up for the next individual movies that will build up to that. Notice how the whole movie kept giving off hints of things to come and Thanos plus the infinity stones rather than Ultron? It was more of an obligation to watch it and you could feel something was off on the creativity level. Similar situation, riding on the name of TITS and famous names brought it success but the movie itself wasn't all that entertaining whatsoever.
  • Before HKTV aired it might still squeeze by with a grain of truth. After watching the big three from HKTV, it more or less solidifies the argument that TVB has dropped the ball on an epic level. Their strategy to retain the see lai crowd is crumbling and their solution of popular mainland drama / film foray is nothing more than wool over your eyes by showing a nicer production budget but same old rehash. Wu Zetian is a perfect example of the same thing done for the millionth time, her character is so Mary Sue and aside from a few historical events they can't ignore the rest is just average at best. In short, it's not Wu Zetian, its just a fantasy of what producers want her to be mixed in with very little history and an average draggy script selling itself based on the name alone. TVB also likes to argue that people watch online, except guess what... people who know their way around the Internet are tuning into Korean, Japanese and Western dramas. Even my mom is a lot pickier after being exposed to HKTV, at least she knows why I'm always only half tuning in when we watch TVB at dinnertime. The past is something people dwell on because it absolutely destroys anything they have been able to produce in recent years. The best shock value TVB can seem to come up with is a rape scene that last a couple of seconds. To name a few, what happened to great characters like Michael Hui (Sunny Chan / Threshold of an Era - 1999) who turned on everybody in his pursuit of fame and fortune once he lost the struggle between his noble self and the darker aspects of reality or Ben Ding ( Deric Wan - Looking Back in Anger 1989) who killed the woman he calls mother after raising him as her own in order to cover himself up and continue to enjoy high society after going power hungry. They haven't been able to bring back that character depth, storyline, etc. But its not like it doesn't exist! Former TVB people made The Menu and look how much fame and recognition it brought to the cast. That's another thing they need to seriously address, the talent. The difference in watching Catherine Chau against someone in her own age group like Kate Tsui or Linda Chung is so staggering I'm wondering if we can make a special award and just give it to her for Fong Ying instead this year at the award ceremony. HK Golden Forums conducted an online vote recently and HKTV series alongside actors/actresses took every top spot available. Main problem is going to be them losing out on future generations who grew up with the Internet and not TV. Pretty much those of us who are adults from Gen Y (1980+) aren't tuning anymore because there's an abundant amount of better material as border constraints are knocked down in the wake of Internet.
  • I believe there was another white knight in talks but I fail to see how extra guaranteed money to help keep you afloat for a while longer is bad business. Buying more time seems like a valid strategy given their current state. They could've done a rental monthly contract with HKTV in case the new investor doesn't agree with the arrangement, but the demand compared to the offer has such a wide gap that I have to wonder if the white knight talk is the reason for this display of confidence in their demand or if the executive level has simply gone full retard. The employees who were die hard loyal can at least start considering other options knowing nothing is in it for them in the near future. ATV has been rotten for so long that they should consider themselves lucky to still be in business as a non-factor anyway.
  • @funnlim Perhaps one of the following? Beyond the Rainbow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3up9C6pQ-Zw Paranormal Mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z3qxrOl6yY
  • @funnlim Are we talking about 14 in modern terms or 14 in Tang dynasty terms? Because at her current age, she's actually way ahead of her peers already to the point she can hold official office and quite ambitious rather than what she's been currently portrayed as. Rough around the edges, yes, but not to the point where I have to question she doesn't understand the rules of the game. They've also taken great liberities to tone down the importance of her family and her own personality / education level which looks to me like they're setting things up for a lot of misery to come. To be fair though, I'll give it a bit more time but honestly looks like idealized version incoming to gain sympathy for her later actions to come. What TVB said was that they did an edit themselves then they were passed the mainland edited version. Here's a link: http://www.ihktv.com/wu-ze-tian-shou-shi.html Near the end: Tsang Sing Ming (曾醒明) pleaded for grievance: "This was set by General Administration of Press and Publication, TVB and overseas had to broadcast the version with additional clothing using special effects as it was perceived more natural. They then gave us the original version with added work and it was not added by TVB itself." If you stare enough it looks a bit fake but it's passable if you don't focus on that area and compare it to the clothing. The other main difference I remember is a lot of the shots are zoomed in above chest level and more of a focus on the face. It got so ridiculous in China that people started mocking it by doing their own zoom-ins and censorship on social media. Cleavage issue is probably getting more discussion than the series itself.
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