Grace Chan, Kevin Cheng Share Photo of Newborn Son, Rafael
After getting in Bali last August, Grace Chan (陳凱琳) and Kevin Cheng (鄭嘉穎) welcomed the arrival of their son Rafael last week. Giving birth via Cesarean section, Grace is recovering well and even even updated her Instagram today with a photo of Rafael cradled in Daddy Kevin’s arms.
Grace wrote, “Welcome to the World Baby Rafael! Daddy & Mommy have been longing for this special moment! Thank you to all the wonderful staff at Hong Kong Adventist Hospital Stubbs Road for making his arrival the most comfortable and stress-free! More importantly, thank you for respecting our privacy so much! We’re really grateful for the personalized care and professional counsel from all the doctors, nurses & guest relations. You guys were all so sweet & caring! We feel so BLESSED!
To all our family and friends, all your well wishes have been heard & received! We want to thank everyone from the bottom of our hearts! Finally, just want to let everyone know that Mommy is healthy! Baby R is behaving~ And Daddy is taking good care of all of us! What more can we ask for? Praise the Lord! P.S. Rafael we love you so so so so so so much!”
Kevin re-posted Baby Rafael’s photo on his Instagram and wrote, “Every parent thinks his baby is the cutest…I finally understand lah!”
As to why the couple chose to name their son Rafael, speculations arose that Kevin may have been inspired by tennis champion, Rafael Nadal, due to his love for the sport.
This article is written by Jayne for JayneStars.com.
It’s good to be inspired but having a Spanish name is weird.Now there is a Torres (Miriam Yeung) and a Rafael….
His name is named after Nadal Rafael the famous tennis player. Kevin loves tennis which explains the name for his son.
Thanks for explaining this to me but please do not talk to me like a mindless kid. I’m a massive tennis fan and my job is sports related. Obviously the child is named after Nadal but he Kevin is still putting a Spanish name onto Chinese baby…
@jimmyszeto English name onto a Chinese baby is ok, any other national name isn’t allowed! Glad it’s written in a rule book!
If I’m not Spanish and I don’t speak Spanish and the teacher called me by a Spanish name in class, I would feel embarrassed. I think you would too…
@jimmyszeto the first Chinese to have an English name must also feel very embarrassed, instead of feeling empower for embracing diversity! Good to making the kid feel bad for having a different name to the rest, because the name should make you feel ashamed of who you are, and not what you are, am I right? As a parent, I don’t go oh, how dare you call your kid such and such name. You must be pretentious, etc etc. name of your child sometimes is their parents’s hope and dream for that child. Picking a name for your child is a precious moment for all parents on earth, you shame them for picking a Spanish name? I’m glad you don’t live in Australia, because many parents here name their kids with various nationalities that has nothing to do with their heritage!
Also good job Sherlock, Rafael in sounding is exactly the same as Raphael! No one would know the difference until you read the name!
You better ask a kid with Spanish name if he is a proud promoter of diversity or he just feels odd to be called by a Spanish name. As a parent I can’t answer that question unless I’m in the kid’s boots…
@jimmyszeto Totally with you on this one. I’m all for being unique and diverse, but I can see how it would be very difficult for a child with a full Asian background to fit in with a name like “Rafael” (being neither Asian nor English-talk about identity crisis). Spelling aside, even phonetically, it sounds much too exotic.
I can only speak for myself as an Asian who grew up in the West, but I think as a kid, an important part of growing up with confidence is having a sense of belonging amongst your peers, which could be difficult when your name sets you so far apart from the pack.
Seems like Kevin & Grace are trying very hard to be non-conforming and unique, which may not always be a good thing.
I grew up in the west too and even with the name ‘Jimmy’, it’s different and there are enough pressures for a kid to contend with in life than have to fend off laughter from a name a parent gave them because either the parents wanted to stand out or they are just plain uneducated and do not have understanding of society….
@jimmyszeto if you care to look up some baby naming websites, all names stem from some sort of ethnic origin. Your name – assuming it is “Jimmy” is Hebrew/Latin. How do we not know that 20 years from now, Rafael will be as common as Peter, Paul or Henry? Would it be more appropriate if all Chinese people had Chinese sounding names, or would that be wierd as well?
Although we are all entitled to our own opinions, please don’t reprimand the parents for choosing a name that that was not primarily more “English sounding.” Although did you know that the majority of English words came from Latin and Greek roots?
Also, the only time a child would be embarrassed of their name, is if they were surrounded by classmates with close minded parents who condoned ridicule or name calling on someone who did not fit the status quo.
If the child was raised to be confident individuals, why would they see their name to be any different from their friend Steve or John?
No need to be so self conscious over a name, it doesn’t define who you are as a person. It’s how you portray confidence in yourself and how you respect others, which will in turn earn respect from other people.
As I parent, all I worry about is how my children fits into society and for them to be comfortable. Not interested in where names originate from. The current trend of names is what is most important. I’m not going to hand out a bizarre name to my child and let him fend off bullies if they happen to appear…
@jimmyszeto current trend of the name is most important? Sooo follow trend is good, standing out and being different is bad? You can give your child a normal commoner name, that doesn’t mean she/he will be normal/stand out? Her eyes could be different, her hair could be different, you can’t guarantee normality for the child? Instead of trying to be normal, why don’t you think it’s just as good as to teach your kid to embrace their differences and uniqueness?
Plus yea, let have 10 kids in the class all called James, really great to have that many kids share your name! I know many people don’t want to call their children the same names as the popular one because then they have to figure out bizzilion ways of calling their kids differently, so in a gathering, it doesn’t get confusing.
@littlefish spot on. Am not a big fan of this couple but I do agreed that ppl are so biased. English name for a Chinese bloke is ok but not an English name haha. Hypocrisy at its best. Just because you can speak English (though without an ounce of English in your blood) justify that a person can have an English name and to have a Spanish name (you must speak Spanish though you might not have any Spanish blood) haha. What a joke!!!
I’m a massive tennis fan who watches and plays tennis regularly. I didn’t bother calling my son Roger though since in the UK, it is seen as a very old pre world war name and Rafael for obvious reasons. If Kevin was a bigger fan of Djokovic then the child could have been Novak. That’s breaking even more new barriers…
@jimmyszeto I wouldn’t be bothered. It’s not like the name has some rubbish meaning nor is its a homophone for anything weird. I can’t think of any knicknames he could be bullied with. Besides, alot of “English” names aren’t even English. For example Kevin is a variation of an Irish name. I have an Indian name despite being 100% Chinese. Also, It’s not like @falla knew you were a massive Tennis fan (unless they did). All he/she did was state a fact. The inspiration of the name is not “obvious” to anyone who isn’t a Tennis fan, so take a chill pill.
I didn’t ask for your opinion tbh so you can save that. I’m more interested in the opinion of the child with the name….
@jimmyszeto Well you didn’t say you didn’t want my opinion either. This is an open platform for discussion. Freedom of speech, so I don’t have to save it. If you don’t want anyone’s opinion, why even bother commenting? Freak.
It’s because you put yourself in the position with that name. It’s irrelevant. It’s the person with that name and his feelings that is relevant….
1) Totally Agree. It reads: 1) pretentious 2) attention seeking at the same time = wanting to stand out (same with Torres back then. And Pegella for Gigi Lai. 3) ignorance (ie English wise. Whether official or unofficial (made up) – ie SIRE Ma omg).
My respect goes out to folks who are proud of, and hold on to names that are officially doled out to them rather than making a Western one up … esp one that is stooopid – when you get introduced to a Westerner.
Chanel, Gucci, Apple … 😛 (Cash for Cally Kwong’s dog – indicates the mercenary lurking within despite all the surface Buddhism talk)
2) Beautiful looking healthy baby, and congratulations to the happy new couple.
3) Doesn’t matter a jot in this day and age (2019!) whether it was shotgun wedding or not. They were happy and contented with each other, and stable in their affection for each other and the relationship … and that’s all that matters imo. A baby (unexpected or otherwise) is just cream on the cake – a bonus.
And he dotes on her … that’s a good basis and great news when the dude is more in love and willing to do/sacrifice more (the rest will erode with time bec by nature-default many responsibilities will just naturally fall with women. Parenting for starters – which baby will look for Dad’s breast for eg? 😛 ).
@nomad822 agree with you on the name thing, though sometimes people just use straight up pinyin for their english names, i.e., morton cheung, kamen, etc. and english names are generally easier to remember IMO.
disagree with you on the shotgun marriage thing. i think it cheapens the idea of marriage when people do it purely to prevent others from badmouthing them (which they do anyways, so don’t see the point.) and then you see all these celebrities doing the same thing, moses & aimee, grace & kevin, linda & her hubby (though i believe they were actually registered prior to the wedding. i wouldn’t hold a wedding in that case until after my baby’s born. i would never do something as tacky as shotgun), hawick & yang mi, ruco & phoebe, leon lai & his wife, aaron & moka, feng shao feng & zhang liying, athena & paul wong, and the list continues. they’re not doing this because they see each other as lifetime partners before the kid came along. they’re doing this because the kid came along. talk about insincere. it’s more of a responsibility & a show for others, not true lifetime commitment to be with each other stripped of extraneous causes.
why are my comments getting these “awaiting moderation” notification? did i piss off some comment mod @ jayne?
Well many after hindsight of a baby appearing in the womb, decide come out with ‘We saw each other as lifetime partners anyway’. Note- Ruco after having to admit to Phoebe pregnant before marriage. Athena Chu after publicly insisting on applying no sex before marriage for years. I find their comments very disrespectful to anyone in any form of a relationship. Are they implying that we don’t take it seriously when we enter relationships? We don’t see our gfs/bfs as lifetime partners because we are hesitant on breeding before marriage. Then there are all these stories of marriage proposals to pregnant partners. Are the pregnant partners really surprised and emotional after getting proposed to? I think weddings aren’t as natural when couples marry with a baby on it’s way. Wedding’s should be natural, genuine celebratory occasions to display a couple’s lifetime vow to each other, ‘when they are ready for marriage’ without external influences….
@jimmyszeto Yes. it’s so tacky the way they go marketing their marriage once a baby derail their plans. They try to mask their mistakes by stating how much they love each other all along, all the while downplaying the importance of the baby that prompted all of this. it’s so nauseating. Let’s not kid ourselves; everyone knows they’re saying all of this to save face. It doesn’t prevent people from questioning the authenticity of the marriage.
“I find their comments very disrespectful to anyone in any form of a relationship. Are they implying that we don’t take it seriously when we enter relationships? We don’t see our gfs/bfs as lifetime partners because we are hesitant on breeding before marriage…Are the pregnant partners really surprised and emotional after getting proposed to? I think weddings aren’t as natural when couples marry with a baby on it’s way. Wedding’s should be natural, genuine celebratory occasions to display a couple’s lifetime vow to each other, ‘when they are ready for marriage’ without external influences….”
Yes, agreed, too. The moment they decided to get married for the sake of the child is the moment when their marriage ceases to be pure. It’s now tainted with the benefits & obligations of a marriage for their own reputations & self-gain. No longer meaningful at all. If I was their child, I can’t say I’d be proud of the circumstances of my parent’s marriage.
It’s brilliant that the ‘Male’ proposes to the ‘Female’ when time is right and they enjoy an amazing wedding but many of these celebrity’s don’t marry until they are forced to do so with a baby along the way. These younger woman are forced to pretend that they have enjoying the most emotional proposal and greatest wedding when realistically they have rushed everything before the bump clearly shows and it has been chaos. Typically couples usually use at least half a year and sometimes more than a year to plan a wedding. I don’t even know why the media gets praise for uncovering that a celebrity is having a shotgun wedding. It’s not difficult! Call the TVB filming rota department. E.g.Grace has taken a holiday indefinitely in a couple of months time and dropped out of a drama. That’s clearly crying out as a baby along the way which is what happened this time…
@jimmyszeto yeah these people can’t be more fake. If they’re in a hurry to get married cos of the bun in the oven, they should just cut out all the pretentious excuses and spare us all the fancy proposal stories especially if their stories or timelines don’t match. If having a baby before marriage is taboo to them or their image, then make sure to take proper precautions all the time. Doesn’t take that long to put on a condom and it’s cheap, easily available and one of the most effective methods of birth control.
Most respectable solution is to give birth. Recover and raise the child for a period then discuss whether to marry with time to plan the wedding of a lifetime. Having a rushed wedding to ‘save embarrassment’ when everyone who attends the ceremony already knows what is going on, isn’t going to salvage anything. The guests won’t face to face call the couple out for having a child before marriage but there will be plenty of behind the back gossip anyway. Why not just wait till the child is born and give the mother a proper wedding to remember…
@jimmyszeto Exactly! I have way more respect for couples who register/hold wedding for marriage and then have a child down the road OR have a child then register for marriage years down the road. It shows they thoroughly took time to contemplate the state of their relationship, understood whether they fit each other & still decided to take the next step for a family. It shows they have the integrity to decide for themselves, irregardless of others’ opinion.
@jimmyszeto I disagree and think it is quite a stretch to say shotgun marriages are disrespectful of “real” weddings. There are many reasons for a couple to get married (with and without love) and love does not necessarily have to result in marriage. Marriage is simply a contract, a celebration of that commitment. It’s only significance is to the couple and has no affect on others.
If 2 people rush to get married because of pregnancy, it does not make it less valid than marriages for other reasons. Being married before being pregnant does not guarantee a longer, happier marriage and shotgun marriages do not mean divorce is on the horizon.
These people are just living their lives, finding their own happiness. If they want to be officially married before the baby is born, why do we have to judge them or imply their marriage is inferior?
Shotgun wedding are not disrespectful of ‘real weddings’. That’s not what i meant anyway since i had a shotgun wedding too(without the baby). Shotgun weddings may likely last just as long as normal wedding but it feels like a marriage proposal based purely on ‘wanting to marry’ without internal or external influences seems more comfortable and natural. There will be couples who marry early even when they aren’t ready for marriage because a baby is coming along or couples that are nearly end of the relationship life but decide to marry because a baby is suddenly coming along.
@jimmyszeto I think you may have misspoke when you said you had a shotgun wedding. Not knowing each other a long time isn’t the same as feeling forced to have wedding. The normal usage of shotgun is pre-marital pregnancy.
The ideal “wanting to marry” without other influences is the ultimate romance, but not realistic in all cases. Arrange marriages happen. I know people who get married because the other person is going to get deployed or deported. People get married for financial security or insurance benefits. True, in a perfect world, I wish that isn’t the case. But once they are married, it is the beginning. Their love for each other, hopefully, should only grow and how they come together should not matter.
I thought shotgun just meant quick…rushed. Anyway it’s slang so I may have misinterpreted it..
@potatochip but the idea of marriage, the intention at least, is to swear a commitment to each other due to love. not due to the financial benefits, personal gain or to take responsibility. if they do it for any other reason (aside from cultural expectations, i.e., arranged marriages), it’s still valid, but taints the meaning behind it.
and if the commitment is so strong, regardless of a child, why even wait to be pregnant to sign the paperwork? why wait until a baby is on the way to formalize a lifelong commitment?
i agree that marriage is just a piece of paper. if the promise behind it isn’t upheld, then it really is just a legal binding contract. so why go through all the fuss with marriage to begin with once a child is on the way?
because it’s to provide security and assets to the child & the couple, not because of love. or in these celebrity cases, also to bestow a better reputation to the couple. that, to me, is an insult to the meaning behind marriages. still legally sound, but ultimately not very ideal.
They want to shut mouths. They want preserved image for future financial gains. They want traditional views to not ridicule their behaviour.They want the bride to not feel ashamed….
@coralie Only the couple knows deep in their heart if they would have married with or without baby. We can’t assume that they would not have married or that their love is lesser because they are pregnant. I think saying it is an insult is harsh.
If we think about it even more philosophically, what is love? What makes someone love the other? Beauty? Security (financial)? Laughter? Shared values? I think creating life with that person is also perfect reason to love someone. For me, it would definitely deepen my love.
@potatochip it would deepen your love because you’re hormonal during pregnancy lol.
in any case, I intensely dislike when couples throw a marriage together once they discover a baby is on the way. They only did it out of convenience and like jimmyszeto said, to shut others’ trap and save their image. If they intended to be together forever regardless of the baby, there’s no need to wait. Likewise, if the baby was a happy occurrence, even less need to hold a shotgun wedding. They did it for the baby and to save their image, point blank.
@coralie I don’t think it is all hormonal. Fathers don’t have hormones and I would hope they love their pregnant partner more because of the gift they are giving them.
If the ideal marriage is about love, then I think Kevin and Grace have shown that they love each other. (BTW, I am not a fan of either). This baby doesn’t lessen that love.
I do agree that they (Grace, more so) care too much about their image. I think she is naive and has had her purity views challenged by this. I cringed when she said, “Baby girl would be spoiled by Kevin and a baby boy can play tennis with him”. I hope she learns not to be too rigid, traditionalist and idealistic. Hope this matures her.
@coralie I don’t believe Linda Chung one bit that she was already registered with Jeremy before she got pregnant. That was a story made up to save her face and myth of virgin till marriage. Just compare how she treated her 2 pregnancies. It seemed she was ashamed of her first pregnancy and went to great lengths to even not appear in photos with her tummy showing eg hiding her tummy behind a big soft toy. And she didn’t announce her pregnancy till she was at 6 months along or her baby’s birth till days later. Contrast this with her second pregnancy, she was practically flaunting it. She announced it as soon as she could safely announce it and posted many pics, even those showing off her nude pregnant belly. Check out her IG and you can clearly see the different treatment for both pregnancies.
@passingby2 first pregnancy, Linda hid her tummy with cushions. 2nd pregnancy, she was gushing about it. it’s very obvious the first one was a shot gun. frankly, her acting and singing sucks. hope she stays in Canada for good.
@janet72 yeah her acting got from bad to worse. It’s embarrassing to see her try to act. She only knows how to cry like a “hum bao”. That last drama where she went ballistic on Frankie Lam’s character made me want to shut her up so bad. Throughout her career, she hasn’t been a good actress, watchable nevertheless but somewhere along the way when she started being nominated for Best Actress that’s when she went downhill from there.
It was funny when Linda seemed to think she had a massive breakthrough when she filmed Tiger Cubs 2 and seemed to think that she had strong chance to pick up Best Actress before the series was released. A massive flop and her acting was hated. It brings back the memories of Myolie winning the role to put on weight for ‘To Grow with Love’ and she flopped so badly. Comes to show that if an actress’s acting is terrible then whatever great role she is casted in, she will flop miserably..
@passingby2 haha she is like that Teh Bao who has gained so much recognition after acting Teh bao for a long time. But I like this humbao more than that pretentious Tehbao with the chicken voice.
@coralie sometimes I do wonder if the guys know how to use contraception. women like Athena and Grace and all their crap. they got married BECAUSE a baby was on the way.
I got my name after ‘Jimmy White’ because my family had poor English since not arrived in England for long back then and watched a bit of sport on TV so chose this name. I gave typical English names to my children, ‘Ethan’ and ‘Ellie’ because they need one to get by in England. There isn’t any need to stand out by pulling out a flashy name. Well Kevin and Grace’s are through and through Chinese (yellow skinned). The child will also need an ‘English’ name to get by in Hong Kong since English is widely used. How the hell will giving the child a Spanish name going to be any use apart from for the parent’s own benefit of showing off by being different. Quite ridiculous….
@jimmyszeto I’m waiting for Ruco to announce his baby’s name. Heard that it will start with letter Q. Wonder if it will be something made up like his own name lol. Or maybe he will name his child after Quentin Tarantino or Quincy Jones and start a new trend among artistes to name their children after famous filmmakers or musicians (one up over those naming their kids after famous sports personalities). Or maybe he has Quasimodo in mind, that surely will be a very unique name so I won’t be ruling that out.
@passingby2 ruco will be naming his baby starting with Q because of his initial R and wife’s initial P…so Q is his idea of a complete family.
@janet72 “ruco will be naming his baby starting with Q because of his initial R and wife’s initial P…so Q is his idea of a complete family.”
That’s a cute idea, but names starting with a letter Q may be difficult to choose.
@jayne @janet72 I also think that is pretty cute to name the baby with a Q because it follows their initials. If a girl, Quinn is an option. If they have more children “S” and “T” will be easier, lol.
@passingby2 Q? Wow that’s new, where the heck did you find out that he plans on naming his baby starting with the letter. q?
@jcc10 From the horses’ mouths, no less. Check out their interviews.
PQR is just a pattern. Shows nothing to display that it is a complete family or not but he loves to promote himself as we have seen recently….
@jimmyszeto Sooo it’s wrong to name your children after your idol? Wishing your children to follow the footsteps of that idol? Learning to be as good of a human being as Rafa isn’t a bad thing? I’d say if Rafa was English, and his name was Raphael, n Kevin then name his son Raphael, it’s ok then? But because it’s in Spanish, it’s just plain wrong? Hey if HK loves to name their children English name, and now the new trend is name them in a different language, how dare they go against the norm, hey :)?
You must be confused.Since when is Raphael an English name? How do you know Rafa is a good human being. Did you automatically presume that? We all know he has great fighting qualities in tennis but do not know much else about him as a person.
@nomad822 Uhm, if a commoner use the name Rafael, you also assume they pretentious? Couldn’t it be that Rafa Nadal is a great role model? Rafael is also an angel, just because it’s written differently than its English counterpart, it’s still the same sounding.
These days too many people came up with a funny name for their child. Just like her good friend Anjaylia name her daughter Hosana? Too bad can’t tell who the baby looks like because it’s only half the face are showing but better than others who doesn’t show their kid to the world at all. the baby might have some India look since Grace is part of India even though she denied it.
All these recent pregnancies/weddings lead me to wonder whether the woman is so careless and not on top of her contraceptive game.. or are the artists’ schedules so crazy and intimacy so sporadic that there is no time for birth control.. or all these women have a common understanding that in order to ‘tie down’ their other half, they need to upgrade the man’s role to fatherhood?
I believe in this day and age, you can definitely be in control of when to conceive a baby. Maybe these artists care more about stability of their future with a man more than their reputation as an artist. Note that this only happens the ‘good’ men who dotes on the woman.. you don’t see Kenneth Ma announcing marriage or fatherhood.
@moseenaddict maybe the men don’t know how to use contraception.
@moseenaddict lol, poor Kenneth, but I think you might be on to something!
Pregnancy traps are starting to sound more and more plausible, considering how often these incidences occur. Let’s be real, accidents don’t happen THAT frequently, and the possibility of these people being unaware of contraceptives is even harder to imagine.
Maybe it’s some kind of unspoken secret among the celebrities, haha.
I don’t think these are accidents because as anyone with experience of having a baby knows, it is so easy to decide whether to use contraception or not. All these celebrity pregnancies normal in that the couples weren’t fussed that a baby came or not. It’s just that they panicked when they it suddenly hit them that traditional family members might think it is embarrassing and it may harm their images as a celeb so they rush the wedding and pretend that everything was natural.It can’t be a coincidence that all the wedding, a baby came immediately after them….
@jimmyszeto But if these couples put so much stock in their image & what other people think, then why didn’t they take the necessary measures to prevent premarital pregnancies from occurring in the first place? Why put themselves in the position to lie and hide? Just seems really stupid to me.
Yet, this trend is becoming more and more common within celebrity circles. My guess is that they feel compelled to lie because all the ones before them have done so, so it has now turned into this ridiculous chain reaction.
Celebrities lie all the time.it is pretty much standard for them.They want a baby but not marriage until last resort. Marriage will always lose fans for a celebrity. They just plan to take it as it comes if a baby is found to be on its way.
Then there is one who is already pregnant but has the audacity to refuse the first proposal because she didn’t like it so simple and so that the guy didn’t have it so easy! It is as though she had a choice! More ridiculous was when the guy said they only discovered they were expecting when they were already planning for the wedding and doing photo shoots in England!!! Please don’t treat us as though we were born yesterday to tell us such things!
@myozzie The funniest part was that the “his” and “her” versions conflicted with each other. The pregnant one’s initial version was that she didn’t know the guy was planning a wedding and their photo shoot was arranged on a whim to take wedding pics for fun (who in the world does that??) so she had a big surprise when he proposed to her there (the romantic version). Then the guy’s version was that “they had planned since Dec of previous year to take wedding pics in London in August when she discovered she was pregnant” (the practical version) so the pregnancy just pushed the wedding forward. Puhlez if couples want to lie, at least be consistent in which version to present.
@passingby2 *practical and face-saving version *
@myozzie I know who you are referring to. I was wondering why she behaved as though she has a choice. the paper ring with the ‘diamond’ was rejected because it’s not the real thing.
We have to let them off. It’s tough to fabricate a story so that it matches appropriate timeline for proposal to happen before they knew of a baby. In Ruco’s case to prove that the wedding and proposal was planned all along. In Linda’s case they were married before they had the first baby. We must commend them for their effort. It shows that it means a lot to them to hide that the wedding was unplanned and forced due to circumstances….
@myozzie I am not sure how Ruco and Phoebe got pulled into Kevin and Grace’s article, but I do see differences between the couples. Different, not saying one approach is better than the other.
Ruco and Phoebe never claimed to be pure virgins. They were living together. They admitted that he first proposed in bed, which is hardly “traditional”. They announced earlier than they needed to say. When asked if they were pregnant before the wedding, Ruco straight up said, “Duh, of course.”
When is she due? I saw one article that said April/May, but I may be wrong. If that is the case, their timeline fits. He says in July that he is thinking about marriage. They go to England for wedding pictures late Aug/early September. If they conceived in July, it make sense that they realized the pregnancy a month later. Heck, because of irregular periods, some women may take 2-3 months before they know.
And even if they knew about the pregnancy before the proposal, does that really change the marriage? Strangers get married in arrange marriages. A wedding is not the end game. It is the beginning.
@potatochip finally, someone who actually thinks
I don’t see what’s wrong with naming their son Rafael? Kevin uploaded a picture with a baby bodysuit and a tennis racket alongside so most likely they named him after Rafael Nadal.
At least it’s not a name like Kandy, Apple, Fanny, Bunny, Angelababy, Creamie etc.
@firenationazula well, HK must name their children in English name, Spanish name isn’t allowed it seem xD
It’s not that a Spanish name isn’t allowed. It’s just wierd. Can I ask you is Spanish taught or commonly used in Hong Kong? English is commonly spoken so it’s normal to have a English name to make life easier. A Spanish name also needs be pronounced with a Spanish accent for it to work.
@jimmyszeto Spanish name has to be pronounced with a Spanish accent for it to work??? Rafael still sounds Raphael, you don’t need a Spanish accent for it to be understood as Rafael/Raphael >_> also I’m sorry but many HK can’t even say their English name with the right English accent >_> or the right sounding, so is that mean English name doesn’t work for HK then?
You said I was confuse before about Raphael being an English name, are you saying Paul, Peter and John not English name? They all have a Hebrew origins, and all are name of important characters in the bible, and all are being used continuously in many centuries by English, is that not classified them as English name???
You said I don’t know whether Rafa is a great human being, however I know he’s a person that even though he’s so famous, he’s still down to earth. I know that he would always fight despite his injuries, think for his fans and the spectators. I know that he is always friendly and kind to other. I know that meeting with difficulties, he is trying his best to work out a solution. And I also know that even if he was the best person in tennis world (he is not), he would always still think he’s second best, and still strive for better (I would also argue that this quality is also his downfall, always self doubt, but that would also a good reflection to see). Are those not great qualities to wish your child to have?
Have you studied Spanish before? All Spanish words have to be spoken with the back of the throat with tongue curled for it to be Spanish. Just because of what the english spelling looks like we can’t just pronounce it that otherwise the whole Nadal inspiration idea would mean nothing…
@jimmyszeto lol, again, many HK can’t even say their English name properly, instead it’s morphed into the language accent they use. Wouldn’t u then argue it’s moot point when they can’t pronounce their English name correctly? Inspired to take rafa’s Name doesn’t mean to take on his nationality lol. And again, Rafael is still Raphael -.- Like I don’t go and correct the English how to say my Vietnamese name, because it’s troublesome, and as long as they get the spelling of my name correctly, and call me with the “recognisable sounding” that I know it’s to my name, that’s good enough. I don’t go around correct every Chinese/Asian kid on how to say their name properly, I don’t know why you hell bend on wanting other to say Rafael the correct sexy Spanish accent lol xD sorry if we couldn’t do the sexy accent but hey, we know it’s the sexy spelling :p good enough xD
Hope Kevin and Grace gives it a good go at the name in their next interview. Spanish accent is totally not sexy I feel. Takes the whole mouth and probably 10x the time to pronounce a world compared to mandarin. To me Rafael is equal wierd to ‘Cristiano’ Ronaldo or ‘Lionel’ Messi if used outside of their respective countries. Unsurprisingly with their huge popularity of billions of fans, very, very few have named their children after them. I’m a big fan of Mohamed Salah because I’m from Liverpool and we idolise him here. Is it any good if I have another boy and call him Mohamed? We have to draw a line somewhere. I draw my line well before Rafael…
Can I also just ask what name is not pretentious? Victoria, George, Elizabeth, blah blah, royalty! Name those are not pretentious hey? What’s about Peter, Paul and John???? That’s not pretentious? Let’s face it, we have so many famous people, guess what???? Almost all English name is that of a famous person!
And if you name your child Apple, Cherry (common fruit name and not pretentious flashy famous people’s names), then you are just weird and odd! No one can win in this naming game! I’m sure the first time you announce your child’s name, your friend possibly don’t think much of it either, but they won’t tell you. So no need to be so mean to the newly parents on the name they pick for their child >_>
@littlefish agree! Rafael is a decent name and sounds a lot better than a fruit (no offense to people who are named after fruits). or even popular Japanese names like Yumiko, Miki, Miko, Yumi etc are pretty common in HK too.
Am I the only one who doesn’t see any issue with the name Raphael? It’s the parent’s choice to name their child whatever they feel appropriate. The parents don’t have to be Spanish, because god knows how many uncles, brothers, husbands and cousins are already named Raphael in one Spanish family alone.
My daughter’s name is of Greek origin, because I admire the meaning behind the name – wisdom, strength and she certainly bears both these qualities.
There are too many Aidan, Ethan, and Lucas’ in one class already, and many parents rack their brains trying think of something unique for their child.
Times have changed, as parents who are now more educated are more creative in choosing unique names vs the conventional ones. I’m still indifferent to names like Apple,Saint and North – but those aren’t my children.
And if it’s good enough for the Ninja Turtles, it’s good enough for Kevin & Grace.
It’s Rafael. Read the title please or watch some tennis…
@jimmyszeto ok my bad for incorrectly spelling the 2nd ranked player in the world..and obviously the Ninja turtle comment was sarcasm.
But my point was, there isn’t anything wrong with choosing a name which you feel closely connected to, whether it be a favorite sports player, grandparent or even a fruit…
They aren’t closely connected either so he won’t have this feeling. Not physically, emotionally nor spiritually….
As for shotgun weddings or announcing surprise pregnancies shortly after the wedding (because we can all perform basic math and guess when the child was actually conceived) May be conditions which were to satisfy their management companies or show respect towards family elders.
HK society still sees this subject as taboo. How often do we “assume” a family is married when they have children? If we refer to the spouse as a “partner” we suspect their sexual orientation, and if we refer refer them as boyfriend/girlfriend we assume the father does not want to commit to marriage.
Phew, this thread blew up. I admit that when I first heard the name, “Rafael”, I flinched a bit. It didn’t seem to fit a baby with Chinese parents. But I tend to be a traditionalist with names and prefer cultural ones so the English names (Morton, Damon, even Linda, etc) also sound out of place. Many of these names don’t have the right feeling/connotation or sound old-fashion.
My husband had a friend who named his kid, “Agassi”. He must have been very sheepish when Agassi’s memoir came out. That’s the problem with naming after a celebrity, humans are imperfect. For me, it is better to have a name with meaning than for one to absorb the life of another.
But this is all personal preference. Ultimately, naming a child is to strengthen the bond between it and the parents. The baby is the most important being to the parents, therefore, the name represents the parents.
I get into these name discussions frequently with minorities and have learned a lot. It has really made me examine my implicit biases. When we laugh at a name, we are unconsciously showing our bias. Names that are weird to one person is not to another. Saying an English name is better is, in in a way, looking down on the Spanish or other cultures.
Anyways, this is my long-winded way of saying that Grace and Kevin should name the baby whatever is significant for them. Their love and how they raise him is more important.
(I just wish they admit that they were pregnant before the wedding if asked again, but that’s because I hate the purity issue which I ranted about elsewhere.)
@potatochip Uhm, let’s say if I was your friend, who named their child Agassi, I would tell my child that even though Agassi was wild and bad when he was young, what’s most important is he learned from his mistakes, and strived to be the champion that he is. Just because people dismiss you, and you look down on yourself, and have self doubt, there is no greater achievement than pick yourself up and strive for what you believe in. (I don’t read his memoir, just saw a few clips of his talk about his book). Taking a famous person name isn’t absorbing that person’s life, it is about learning from one mistake (because you are right, human are imperfect), and learning from the positive experiences they had. As long as you give your child that positivity, it is not bad to name him/her after a celebrity (unless that celebrity is down right bad like kadashian or hitler lol). Being a parents is being a positive force for your child, picking a name is therefore their hope and dream and loving ideals if they have any for their child
You can spin up with a BS story about any name tbh and portray it in a positive way but what about the typical ,average Rafael locked up in jail in Spain with the same name. This is not the Chinese horoscopes or feng shui. Maybe you want to portray yourself as world’s greatest mother with all these philosophies you want to bounce into the heads of your kids. They have enough pressures to deal with than with you making it even harder with these names and long winded stories of meaning behind the names. A name is just used to conveniently get by. You might think that you are the only inspiration and influence but they have plenty of external influences outside of the house. They know what Spanish is and learn it in school and from their ipads. If I asked my 6 year old son now would he like to have a name like Rafael, he would just think it’s just plain weird….
@jimmyszeto What’s your son’s name?
I just gave him a simple current English trending name which is easy to pronounce and remember.
@jimmyszeto This may seem like an aggressive line of questioning, especially since tone is lost in writing. But I mean this as casual conversation.
You did not really answer me when I asked you your son’s name. Why is that? Did you think, “WTF, I am not going to tell a stranger something this personal”? Did you think I would laugh at or judge your choice?
You think your child’s name is simple, trendy and easy. Another person may view it as boring, common and being a follower. Even though it is ubiquitous that a Chinese person may choose an English name, someone can still look at your last name and say an English name does not match.
And I would say they are not right or wrong in their views. But they are definitely wrong if they express dislike of your name because of those views.
BTW, if the situation were reversed, I would not have told you my child’s name either. Names are personal and should be off limits to criticism. But people do criticize. You want to shield your child from bullying by picking a simple name because kids are mean. But, it starts at home. If they see us cringe at something “weird” or foreign, they will mimic that behavior. That is why even though I see a name or personality trait that I would not choose, I try to be careful of how I react.
But we are all human. We will react. It is more important to introspect and see why we have such reactions and if they are necessary.
Sorry, gotta run to a work out. Will discuss with you more later.
I didn’t answer you because I have already posted my children’s names in one of my first posts of this discussion. If people think your name is boring or follower then it is only a small period of time. People make fun of race, name, appearance(weight) and wisdom do as a I parent I just want to rid one of the criteria which is under my control. Children will feed of each other and group together to make fun of individuals. Let’s say I called my child Goran Szeto or Muhammad Szeto, there could easily be ISIS jokes all through my kid’s childhood. I could educate my child all I like at home but it may not be enough to and his confidence will be affected. It might be ok if one or two pick on you but if groups consistently do so then you will your confidence will be swayed and will start to question yourself and the world we live in.
@littlefish I agree with you that a parent should pick whatever name they like for their child without judgement. I was just saying why *I* wouldn’t chose to name my child after someone, but I don’t think Kevin and Grace doing so is wrong. We all have different reasons on why we like or don’t like a name, but none of us are wrong for liking a name. We aren’t wrong for disliking a name either, but it is wrong when we judge a parent for it.
Like I said very early on there is nothing wrong ‘to be inspired’ but doing the right thing can also be doing the wrong thing. For example a mother loving a child is doing the right thing but spoiling the child can have long term consequences…
@potatochip I know that you are ok with however Kevin and grace name their child, I’m just saying even if people name their child after celebrity, there could an inspiration/ideals for the child, that’s all.
@jimmyszeto dude, it’s so wrong for the parents to have great hope for their child? Sure, there could be a BS inspirational story behind a child name, however, depend on the parents, it doesn’t necessarily mean to put pressure on the kids. Again, I know your POV is all about the negativities of everything and the potential of being bullied, and you were the victim so you want to make sure your child isn’t gonna be one, however, that doesn’t mean you can stop other parents from being as positive as they want??? You can’t just worry about this and that, bully will always happen, it’s how to deal with it. And the bullying happens is when the bully kid just can’t accept the weird/odd one out, can’t open their mind that people are just diverse. I wouldn’t want to teach my kids to be a sheep, just saying.
I’m a percentages man. If I can minimise the risk or troubles for my kids, I will do it. I would love to call them after my favourite sports stars or favourite things. It would be cool but I’m thinking deeper than that. Positivity is good but lots of negativity externally might overcome your positivity…
I am not a fan of either of them but no need to get all worked up over a name. Lol..hhaha…I mean let’s face it if parents can have a name like Morton for their Chinese kid I don’t see what the big deal is w/Rafael. I am more shocked w/parents naming their daughters with a boy’s name or vise versa. Whether it’s a Spanish name over an English name it’s just a name anyway. I used to have a Chinese Real Estate agent w/the exact name of Rafael as he’s an Asian that was born in Columbia thus he can speak fluent Spanish as well as some Chinese. Just b/c the kid is born is HK won’t make it any less interesting or weird whether he lives in Columbia or HK I think. It’s all about preference on whatever the parents feel for at the moment. Since the dude likes the tennis player he’s influenced by it and there’s nothing weird in that.
The hypocrisy is that HK is possibly the top people I know that have weird English name!!! If other HK people allows to modify English name to their liking, why are we judging people who use a foreign name in a correct manner >_>
Just here to read the comments lol Rafael Cheng – got a nice ring to it lol
@myxx hahaha me too, this thread completely blew up. In my opinion I have no idea why everyone is getting so worked up over a name
To a Hong Kong citizen, it is just a name. If the guy with that name went abroad, I guarantee the first question he will be asked is ‘are you Spanish?’, with anyone he meets…
Haha… that’s brilliant!!!
The type of comments that this article triggered just shows how closed minded Chinese people are…..just saying.
@rowrowpower everyone is entitled to their own opinions which is why I often visit this website not only for the entertainment content, but also for the different views which makes the article more interesting. However, when certain comments are purely so subjective to the point where it intrudes people’s beliefs, social, political, religious etc..is when the discussion turns “ugly.”
Also I don’t see any issues if someone were to ask if I was Spanish, even if I was ethnic Chinese with a Spanish name. Nor would I be offended if someone assumed I was Japanese, Korean etc.
It’s part of socializing and people are curious by nature…
However, to imply that such a name was pretentious, ridiculous or embarrassing is clearly more offensive than just asking someone’s ethnic background.
Because, when was the last time you heard name calling – kindergarten?
Just wanted to also add that I respect “jimmy” for strongly defending his views. You need both sides of the coin to make a discussion interesting and I look forward to more of his posts.
Maybe in the West, the thinking is different. You will get almost no one in England decide to put a foreign name such as a Spanish or French name on a child. Nadal has been adored by millions for fans all over the world for well over a decade for his fighting ability and achievements on a tennis court but not many have named their sons after him outside of Spain and you wonder why. It’s not that Kevin is inspired and have broken boundaries with this sudden flash of genius. It is that people consider carefully before naming a child. Apart from the weird nature of using one of those names, the unnecessary trouble of having the child explain to every person he meets on why he has such a name is already a nuisance. If a child is bullied, he may not go directly go asking the mother why and then listen,then understand the beautiful story of how the name originated, then be filled with passion and inspiration from the mother’s story. Most bullying or depression goes undetected by parents until it’s too late. Like I said, as a parent all i’m worried about is for my child to fit in comfortably with others and enjoy a carefree childhood. My responsibility is not to provide them with piles of money nor names to help them stand out amongst others. It is to provide a platform for him/her to progress at her own pace comfortably and hopefully this basis is enough for him/her to develop and achieve good things on his own merit….
@jimmyszeto well I know a few Rafa but again I’m in Australia, so that’s fine and is a different story. However, part of the whole dealing with bullying is that it is quite new now, in term of awareness from the parents’s POV. So I would say the current generation of parents knows to combat it better, or at least have better tool, when back then, not really. So again, I wouldn’t worry, and I would just try to always instill it into my child that he can talk to me anytime about anything is more important than trying to make him a sheep. And a name is just a name, I don’t get offended when millions Chinese and HK ask if I’m Chinese, so why would anyone else should? And I dont get offended even after telling them that, and some would goes “are you sure?”
Hi Jayne. More posts awaiting moderation. This is really knocking our momentum in our passionate discussions..
There’s a reason why Chinese people in majority-Chinese countries have to name their children more unique names. It’s because us Chinese have a smaller variety of last names/surnames. You guys have 4 Chris in Hollywood, but that’s not a problem because there’s Hemsworth, Pratt, Evans, and Pines. In Singapore, there’s Cheng, Chen, Chan, Chang, Chng, not to mention Zhang, Zhuang, Chuang. It’s very much appreciated in Singapore (another majority-Chinese country like Hong Kong) if others have a unique name, as it’s so much easier to remember and makes life easier for everyone.
It’s like comparing apples to oranges, your arguments. There’s always a practical reason why most things turn out the way they do. Back when I was still young and attending school, you have no idea how many Felicias, Joyces, Samanthas, and Fionas there were. Now that my generation has learnt from that mistake, there’s less chance of keying in “Joyce Tan” into Google and then having to dig around for FOREVA to find my Joyce.
@linda yea, people wants common name, I don’t criticise, why would I then criticise people who want unique/rare name lol. The benefit of different spelling is you retain the meaning while keeping the name 🙂 I called bonus and stroke of genius xD because of my circle, I come across some really unique babies whose parents name them after say video game’s characters, and I’m like cool! I never bat an eye to think how they deal at school >_> a different name can be a curse But can be a blessing, no one knows the future, so why worry how you should name your child but just enjoy the process of naming your child (because it’s stressful enough to name them something easy to say, easy to remember, have a nice ring to it, you like it, unique enough so your child ain’t get confused who is getting called, etc etc).
this thread is pointless and leads to no end. A conversation that started out as being obnoxious. For chrissake, it’s Rafael (better than Stormy in my most honest and humble opinion)
Would you people like to hear about my personal experience about a name? I am a Hong Kong Chinese, but have moved to live in Canada too long ago. I have an Italian name as my English name, and a Chinese name given by my mother. As a typical Hongkonger, everyone wants to have a name that nobody else has. When I started high school, the principal (many of our teachers were foreigners from overseas who could not pronounce Chinese names) required all students to have English names. I picked my English name (I did not know it is an Italian name) with the help of my cousin. I thought it was great because I was always the only student and person having this name.
However, when I grew up and moved to Canada, people here asked me if I were Italian in descent and how I got my Italian name. Was my mother Italian or ancestor Italian? I don’t think I look Italian at all!!
On top of that, it is hard to pronounce my name properly. I need to write it out or spell it for people to say it correctly. Or I will be called by some other similar names incorrectly. I hate it. After I got married, many of my friends give up calling me by my first name, they just call me Mrs. xxx.. Or they don’t even call my name at all.
I have no one to blame but myself. I purposely picked an uncommon name. Thank God, it is still a proper name (though not English), unlike Rock, Silly, Rain, Sugar, Penny, Miles, Money, Cash, Sissy, Manly, etc.
If I did not have my name since high school, I might have changed it after I moved to Canada.
I always tell people that I don’t like my first name as it is not a typical and easy-to-pronounce English name.
When I had my son, I just gave him a simple English name to make sure he will not have my bad experience.
Thumbs up! Someone finally understands what I’m trying to say through their experiences….
Yes…that’s the first thing they will ask. Have you got Italian/Spanish/French blood? And if the answer is ‘no’, the perception of you will not be good. For a adult then they can handle it but for a young child, he may feel inferior and out of place.That’s how it is because some countries are unique and names only trend in their home countries.
@jimmyszeto how do you the perception of them is not good? Again, assuming the worst out of some random conversation isn’t a healthy way to life. At school, he doesn’t need to answer more than 100 times??? I was also a foreign student at my school, as a matter of fact, when I moved here, my English was so bad, and I was 15, not younger, I was basically not talking for half a year (wasn’t happy to be moving to a strange country). People still laughed at my name, my math teacher gave me an abbreviated nickname to my name and I’m basically well known around the school for that nickname, but you know what my feeling was: cool! And Whatever! And he’s a nice teacher (not because of what he did but because he’s still a very good teacher). How they think don’t affect me, I don’t try to be a popular kid, I laugh off or return their hi when they called my nickname, over a course of a year -2 yrs later, when my math teacher still call me that name, no kid at school bother and even just went and call me by my first name. It’s how you deal with it is how you should teach the child :/
Btw it’s not like I don’t understand your concern, however, it’s not under your control at all, if a bully wants to bully, there will always be a reason, it doesn’t tend to start with a name unless it’s really odd. And it’s how your child deal with the name. My friend picked a really odd name herself too, but she always confirm people with a cheerful response, and so people just accepted it. Maybe our experiences are better and therefore we are more of a hopeful people, but that’s just how life is, diverse 🙂
Not everyone is mentally as strong as you, especially kids who have only only entered the world for a short period of time…
Perception can’t be good because at best the child does not have an answer to why he has no relation to that country and at worst will be seen by others as coming from an uneducated family who pot lucked the name…
@jimmyszeto again, you assuming. Only uneducated people thinks there must be a relation in naming your child this n that! Oh hey, love for a sport and its champions isn’t a good enough relation?
True, not many can be as mentally strong, however, you don’t know if the kid isn’t gonna be one either. I know a couple, who the dad is an Asian of colour, n both of them were living abroad when they were young, 5-6yrs old, and both got bullied quite badly. You know what they did to their little girl? They train her on how to deal with bullying, because they notice how timid and shy and not mentally strong her mind is. Now that’s good parenting. And my boy is the same, so I’m not sure if I can teach him as well as they do, but I hope I can try my best. You can’t shield your child forever, but you can prepare them and help them face whatever difficulties lie ahead.
My favourite sports stars are Jimmy White(snooker). Can’t use that now for my next child since that would be a duplicate. Mohamed Salah(soccer) our current best player and I really liked Roberto Baggio(Italy) as a child. Tennis player really enjoyed the big serving of Goran Ivanisevic. My next child, I think I’ll try and outdo Kevin’s ‘Rafael Cheng’ with Mohamed Szeto or Goran Szeto. Mohamed Szeto. How does that sound? Anyone who will question my next son’s name must be uneducated. My education is fine…..
@jimmyszeto lol, when picking a name for my child, thinking of how other’s see it, or judge it is the last on my list. Idk about Mohamed, but Goran sounds decent 🙂 but even if u choose Mohamed, I don’t think I would blink an eye lol, but then again, it’s just me 🙂 question like whether you have an Arabic blood? I would not say that is uneducated, rather I said if anyone frown and question in a critical manner is therefore uneducated, different connotations. Like I said before, many times I was asked if I’m Chinese then follow with a “are you sure”, I have never been offended, so just because people ask if I’m from this and that to name my child this and that, I wouldn’t be offended. Nor do I think that person see me or my son badly. If they do like you said, then they are the uneducated one, and their opinions aren’t that matter to me 🙂
@littlefish to piggyback off this comment, maybe it’s just me, but when i encounter folks who ask me where i’m from or worse, are you chinese, i get really annoyed. i understand they ask out of curiosity or ignorance & the intention behind it is not bad, but it really gets on my nerves. like, do you ever ask a white person or a black person where they’re from? nobody really does because the assumption is that they’re from the country of your residence. of course, this is the same if you’re a minority in any other country, because you look different. but here in the U.S., we’re a melting pot. so the assumption i’m different because of my skin tone (& i suppose my foreign name) even though i speak perfect english, really grinds my gears. when i quip something like, I’m from so-and-so state, they immediately follow-up with a, “no, where are you REALLY from?” Out of politeness, i always respond. but then i’ll return with, “so, where are you from?” so that it makes them aware they certainly aren’t native and their ancestry is foreign as well. too many sweep these questions under the rug because we understand too well the ignorance with our own peers. but i get tired of having to side-step these questions.
call me petty, but that’s how i react when i come across these folks. name certainly plays a part in how people see you (especially if you have a foreign name) and it makes you stand out in a negative way. most people just want to feel like they belong to the group, not be seen as ‘different.’ if you don’t believe me, there are articles about this with how people are changing their foreign names in the ‘states so that they increase their chances of getting interviews.
rafael, though, is not such a crazy name that it won’t blend in with fellow americans. with asians, on the other hand, it might feel a bit foreign.
If the parents name you ‘Rafael’ and you are English or Asian over here then your parents has pretty much screwed you over….
@coralie I don’t mind the “where are you from” question so much. What annoys me is when they automatically assume I’m Chinese (I’m not, btw). The other day, a white man approached me with, “Ni hao”, and I had to muster up all the willpower not to roll my eyes and walk away.
Anyway, back to the name thing… it definitely plays a large role in how you’re perceived by society at large, in the same way that appearances do. In the grander scheme of things, yes, names and looks aren’t indicative of someone’s character, but we live in a superficial world, so you’re only cheating yourself when you ignore the fact that people will have preconceived notions about you (sometimes subconsciously) based on these things.
Ni Hao is probably the most used stranger greeting we get in the west. I usually respond in annoyance with I don’t understand mandarin which is the truth…
@jimmyszeto Yep, so not only do they assume you’re Chinese, but they also assume that all Chinese people speak Mandarin, which makes it even more offensive. It’s not just the ignorance that’s irritating, but the fact that half the time, it comes off as mockery more than anything.
And while we’re on the subject (lol), I’ve also had people say things like, “Wow, your English is so good!” as if they expected me to have an Asian accent. *eye roll* No kidding, I grew up here (America), you dimwit.
Okay, rant over, haha.
I’m not offended by the ‘Ni hao’ because that usually comes from a random uneducated drunk guy or a group of giggling kids in the street. If someone says ‘your English is really good’, I would definitely be offended because that’s basically saying you are a Chinaman and I expected you to have a such good English. Once I got got offended and felt quite hurt when someone said that I had a Chinese accent. Liverpool born we do have strong local accent but she must have imagined my Chinese accent because of the colour of my skin. How would she know what a Chinese accent is anyway when I don’t even know mandarin and can speak some Cantonese….
In Hong Kong, I doubt they understand our thoughts and experiences. They could well think that all these stupid Fruit and Calender names they call each other by are perfectly legitimate and are oblivious to the fact that in the West we would find them hilarious. It’s like the blind copying off the blind which can’t be helped with idols giving themselves dumb names(some intentional to stand out and some just uneducated). Maybe we are too harsh on them because they have an extra language to learn whilst we have less important European languages that are optional for us to learn.
I agree. As adults or mature teenagers, we can sometimes brush it off. As kids,likely there won’t that experience nor understanding to ignore it without damage being done. I mean we ourselves are laughing at some of these idiotic names used by celebrities on themselves and plenty of us have advanced education but we still do it. Teaching our children about how names originate and promoting positivity are very admirable parenting. Whether it can work every time on a child is a big question. It’s a parent battling against countless people your child could meet who can harm him just by ridiculing the name. Nevermind, other possible reasons such as race, stature, appearance, wisdom etr…
@oystergirl i do mind those questions, because there is a sense of otherness & alienation when they come to us with those inquiries. when they do this, i wonder if they would do that to their own racial friends or acquaintances. i bet you 99% of the time they don’t. i mean, i’m not a native since i wasn’t born in the states, but my future generations who would be born here shouldn’t have to go through the same kind of treatment *roll eyes*.
and yes, the assumption part about your race. next time a white gentleman does that, you ask if they’re Irish.
@coralie I was thinking more along the lines of “Howdy, cowboy!” or “Bonjour!”, but asking if they’re Irish works too lol!
Yeah, I see where you’re coming from. I guess I don’t mind it as much because I’ve wondered the same about others due to sheer curiosity, though I’ve never questioned them for the same reason that you find it offensive. Also, the way I see it, the fact that they’re asking at least shows awareness that Asians aren’t limited to one ethnic group. You’d be surprised by the number of people I’ve come across who think all Asians are Chinese.
@oystergirl i think them asking if we’re Chinese is just as bad as them asking if someone Hispanic is Mexican. Shows some awareness but still really offensive.
@coralie lol, I have many westerners said Ni Hao to me, and I always smiled and said sorry I’m not Chinese but hello 🙂 I don’t think I ever feel annoyed. Many times that happens, if each time I feel annoyed, I don’t have many good day. I believe that if you hang on to those things, it will pass on and on to the next generation. If you think more openly, you can then change the closed minded one. But then again, just me 🙂 lol I asked white people where they are from all the time if I hear the accent is different, same with I understand if they ask me where I’m from when my skin is different. I don’t see the wrong in it, human is curious, it’s not a big deal. Tbqh, I would love to ask black people where they are from as well, because some can be from Africa, Zimbabwe, however, that group is extra sensitive. Asking where are you from is never to isolate you but rather to understand you better and perhaps knowing how to deal with you better and not offended you.
The other day I have a short convo with an old man, who literally said a wrong thing every comment, and he apologised a lot because he was afraid he offended me, however after 1 apology is another bad comment. I just laughed it off, to me, he’s either old, and even if he was racist, if I mind, that racist is carrying on with me, if I don’t, it stops with him. When you think too much about these things, such things then always exist. Like we have many people screams not diverse enough in using black people, however when black people use only black people, no one dares say the same? I understand and aware that racism exist and very hurtful to some. However if you nickpick every little things, it will make it harder to move on and get to the ground of equality we all strive for. Human makes mistakes, give them chances to be better 🙂 and I always have lovely conversations with those white people who asked where I’m from, I can’t say the same about those Chinese who also assumed I’m Chinese and started speaking Chinese with me until i say: I’m sorry but I don’t speak Chinese.
I always ask Asian where they are from as well, rather than assuming they are all from the place. If Chinese can do that (assuming I’m Chinese) without coping a racist remark, why would we then narrow down to white men do that = racist?
(Extra stuff: one of those men that said Ni Hao to me is very fluent at mandarin, I take it as he just wants to show off how good his mandarin is xD and his daughter and wife don’t look very Chinese, I could remember it wrong though. must be itchy to show off his language skill 🙂 )
@littlefish i used to not be offended by these things, because i understand that there isn’t any bad intention behind what they ask/say/infer. they just say what they’re familiar with, because no one teaches them better.
but, as i’ve gotten older, i realize that no one tells them these things. no one teaches them that these questions can be very offensive. if no one enlightens them, how is this going to change? i don’t educate them in a mean way. i just make them aware of what they’re asking in relation to themselves.
and as to your example of the guy with the accent. if he speaks with an accent, he’s obv displaying different traits than what’s considered standard by your country. i’m a full English speaking American with zero accent. the only thing that differentiates me is my name. other than that, there’s no reason for them to ask me those questions. and trust me, my foreign name is not why they ask me. my American-born sisters also get asked the same questions even when they have English names *roll eyes*
*EDIT: ever since i’ve become aware of this implicit bias of ONLY asking people who are foreign or have foreign background, i no longer do that. at the very least, i no longer do it from the getgo. i try to see if there’s anything else we have in common and not use race as a bonding theme. for all i know, they might not be in tune with their own cultural roots. i try not to make assumptions.
@coralie So you are saying they ask you “are you Chinese” upon seeing you because you look Asian? I’m the same, if people speak with me on the phone, they would not know I’m Asian. My Australian uncle couldn’t even recognise it was me on the phone at first because my accent was basically Aussie. But then I’m basically being mistaken by all groups of Asian so that’s why I’m very forgiving person lol. Yea, I get what you mean by educating them, however, it likes why are all those Chinese keeps thinking all Asian are Chinese and speak Chinese, and if not, they don’t hang out or talk with you? And they then display a true differentiations in the way they deal with you after learning your nationalities. Yet No one educate them? I’m just saying there are many layers, some layers doesn’t hurt you in any sense, and those random “are you Chinese? Or are you Spanish?” Are one of those superficial levels that doesn’t really hurt anyone. It’s what they do after that information matter. Your sense of belonging should be with your friends and your family, not some randoms don’t know better 🙂 as I grow older, I tend to worry less about what randoms think, unless I need to deal with them daily, I wouldn’t bother wasting my energy on those. With kids, many kids I see at playground here, if they click, they ask each other names, and continue playing, the kids don’t ask where are you from lol. But then again, it’s multicolour here, lots of the time, as parents, I care more about whether the kids being means and bite-y rather than their skin colour. I think what you guys worry about is when they get to say pass that 10 yo, when they hit the teenagers years, where truly mean stuffs can happen. And by then, name isn’t what trigger the bully unless it’s like really odd name. I don’t think many kids know it’s spanish unless they are quite smart lol (considering HK loves to misspell English name to be special, no offend lol)
@littlefish dunno about your situation, but Asians in my area are pretty knowledgeable about ppl of their own ethnicity vs others. for example, they can differentiate just based on last name alone. so can I. and even if not based on last names, if you know Asians well enough, it’s easy to separate them from each other based on looks. not always true but it’s pretty accurate.
but if an Asian person ever ask me if I’m Chinese, I think 99% of the time they’re trying to find common ground with me esp if they’re Chinese. I’ve never had other Asian ethnicities ask me before.
@coralie only if you say your last name. I met with a lot of moms, and we only say our first name lol. So you think the Chinese if ask is trying to find the common ground, you don’t straight out find them racist, because your experience is that Asian ain’t racist to their own Asian, however, Chinese are quite a Ticky group. They don’t hang out with other races as much, even when their English is fluent. My point is basically opposite of yours, where for you, Asian ain’t racist and they try to find the common ground, whereas the white people is ignorant and racist. For me, white people is trying to get where I’m from, and many Chinese basically don’t bother talk to me after finding out I’m Not Chinese. (I’m not saying white people cant be racist, but I’m not immediately jump on the conclusion that all white is trying to get where I am, and all Chinese are racist and ticky, it’s just most of the Chinese are lol, I always don’t think much when such question arise, just answer and then assess, it’s much more accurate). And that’s why I said such question as “where are you from or are you Chinese” aren’t that racist, it’s what come after knowing the information determine who is racist 🙂
In term of facial feature, I betcha can’t tell the different between Chinese vs Taiwanese, Singaporean vs Chinese Singaporean, Malay vs Indo, Cambodia and Thai. Give me their last names, I’m sure many Asian in my area can tell where they are from, but features alone is about 80% accurate. It’s a combination of features, accents and last name will give you about 98% accurate. I have many guess I’m everything else but my country of origin until I speak my mother tongue 🙂
I have many HK friends, literally zero Chinese lol, I have a Chinese Indonesian friend who use to live in Singapore before moving to Australia, along with a mix of aussies and other nationalities (Asian and European). in our circle of friends, there are 2 Chinese ladies, who only turns up if we have a party, and in the party, don’t want to talk to anyone much but each other in Chinese, even when my Chinese indo friend reminded them to talk in English to blend in, they don’t. And their English is fluent if you are wondering lol, one of them literally live here since secondary high school.
@littlefish clicky, not ticky lol. Have to deal with autocorrect mess up with your train of thoughts and memory quite badly xD
I’m going to make possibly an unpopular statement that the ‘Chinese are the most racist in the world’. It is mainly due to lack of education and that it is normal everyday behaviour for them without restrictions. How many Chinese you hear use vulgar language in describing blacks and Indians like they were dirt and would never tolerate children’s relationships with them. Chinese can be racist/discrimative to each other as well. Mandarin parts of the countries dislike of Cantonese and vice versa. Chinese are a tacky group which is also true proven when they study in the West they only hang around in own Chinese group and only attend Chinese restaurants.They don’t try and learn a single word of English and pay for assignments to be completed for them. They are just living in the West with the ‘exact’ daily habits as China. They eat in the buffet with fruit and meats with sauces on the same plate. They are rich but peasant manners.Might as well not come….
@jimmyszeto lol, it’s not an unpopular comment (if by unpopular mean you get hate, yea, it’s unpopular), but it’s well known that Chinese are racist lol. But that’s my point to coralie, Asian ain’t saint, (I said Asian because Japanese and Korean are kinda the same in term of racism). White people and Asian has just about as much prejudice as each other, so it’s moot point to think too much on the first few questions, or on those race/nationalities comments, and that’s why it’s more important to see their actions and behaviours after learning those information 🙂
@littlefish Ive never felt excluded with other Asian people, so afraid I’m not sure how you feel around other Asians. But since you feel that way, there must be a reason for it. The only time I’ve ever felt excluded wasn’t due to race, it was due to class. That, unfortunately, is another can of worms. (Although there were instances in school when I met self-hating White washed Asians, who can’t stand being around other Asians…that’s also another issue.) For the most part, I’ve never had your problems, but if I were you, I would find a way to make them aware of how it feels.
I’ve felt excluded by those low class and some normal hard working chinese people because I can’t speak mandarin and they feel a barrier to anyone that speaks English. Anything difficult they encounter they can’t survive and they go back to their comfort zone of hanging around with own natives. They are staying in England but their mindset is still living in China. They just treat that the English people are invisible. That’s one of the many reasons why the Chinese reputation in foreign countries are terrible. The Japanese I’ve met at uni and students from African based countries would socialise and try and gain from the experience while the Chinese would treat the 3-4 years as a write off, buying a degree at the end of the process…
@jimmyszeto well not to defend Chinese people’s behavior (esp those study abroad ppl), but I find that true for other Asians too. Like Koreans and Vietnamese. They often stick to people of their own background as well. Japanese, on the other hand, is a dichotomy between being xenophobic and welcoming to foreigners. Those that study abroad chose specifically with the intention to expand their networks. Chinese & Koreans aren’t doing it for that reason. They’re here for that degree. Nothing else. And given they’re here for only a short period of time, how deep will those friendships develop anyways? So from their perspective, I can’t say I blame their laziness.
That’s a different story for the people who came here when young but still influenced by their country. Those ones are a mixed bag. They seek what they’re familiar with and don’t try to broaden their networks, yet there are some who are happy to broaden their networks, but find no chances to because of the language barrier. They won’t approach Asian Americans who aren’t their own race in fear of never being able to understand each other or being made fun of. Those who are their own race might speak their mother tongue and can communicate and they can learn from. I see it from both perspectives. As an American, I think it’s bad they don’t seek to immerse themselves into society. But from their standpoint, I can see the difficulty.
Yeh I guess each group come with different targets and intentions. Japanese come and look to improve communication and adapt to of way of life then will close contacts when they go back. The Chinese just want to obtain the piece of paper with zero effort and head home ASAP…
@littlefish Asians have our own set of problems. You can teach them better if you want. Maybe they’re not even aware or don’t care how they come off. And like I’ve stated before, if they don’t know what they’re doing is wrong, they’ll never change.
My best friend from all the way back in HS is Vietnamese and we are actually on better terms than I am with any other races. I don’t care if they’re white, black, Asian, Hispanic, as long as I like their personality. But if someone doesn’t treat me well based on race, I don’t laugh about it. I either give them the same treatment so they know how it feels or I become the bigger person and kill them with kindness and then let them know they’re were a b*txh at the beginning lol. So sue me.
@coralie lol, I don’t feel excluded from Asian, I’m just saying based on my experience (and I live in a flat with mixed races: African, Zimbabwe, Indonesian, Malay, and Chinese for many years. I have great relationship with everyone except for the Chinese lol), after talking to the Chinese, they tend to keep it to themselves, and mingle with their own, rather than blending in. You are assuming I have problem with blending in with other Asian, when I’m just trying to tell you there are other cases you are not aware (and this is why I told you my current circle of mom friends, who is Filipino, Cambodia, Chinese indo, Aussie, hk, I don’t have many friends but when I do, I make sure they are the good one). There are Asian that can blend anywhere, and there are also Asian, mostly Chinese, who choose not to blend. Same with there are white people who are racist, and whites people who are not, Asian who are racist, and Asian who are not.
You can’t tell/educate people when they don’t hang out with you lol. If you only meet a few times in a playgroup, or at the library for your kid’s event, you don’t go hey, can I suggest you mingle more? That’s also rude and that you are assuming they are racist. And that’s why again I don’t jump into conclusion who’s racist and who is not, until good decent exposure to their behaviours. And I don’t say just because they like to hang out with each other solely equate to racism.
I treat everyone how I like to be treated, unless they are downright terrible, in that case, I just ignore them. Anyway, it seems you don’t get my point, so imma stop 🙂
@littlefish I never said people who ask are racist. There’s a racial component to it, but doesn’t mean they’re racist which is why I say the intention behind their question isn’t bad. And this is why I don’t get mad at them. I only got mad later on when I keep getting asked these questions persistently to the point it no longer feels as welcoming as it used to. So instead of ignoring them, I educate them. If they ask not because they’re curious but as a way to denigrate me, there’s nothing to say to these people because they’ve already formed their racial bias. That’s different from those that are curious but unintentionally being offensive by highlighting another’s otherness. Your examples clearly show a racism cause, which unfortunately, not much you can do. But it’s hard to say if that’s really how they feel. If they ask (as an Asian person) to try to get to know you, that’s different and they’re not doing it to show your difference, but to see if there’s a common bond.
I feel we’re saying the same thing except that I like to take action for those that offends me because they’re ignorant (not racist), whereas you don’t see the point of doing so. That’s fine, but I hope you see where I’m coming from.
Edit: quick question, but the Chinese around your flat…are they native? Like they speak perfect English?
@coralie “I only got mad later on when I keep getting asked these questions persistently to the point it no longer feels as welcoming as it used to” – this is what I mean, you constantly meet new people who would ask you this sort of questions, you get mad mean that you think such questions are racist, which then impose the racism on the person asked the questions when they actually don’t mean any racism? I’m not saying ignore educating them, but straight out saying you shouldn’t ask where the person come from because it’s racist, but you can ask if you are the same skin colour/racial features as us is a racist attitude itself. I would educate them after a longer exposure, if I only meet them for like 5-10mins bus drive, and have a 5-10 sentences conversation, I don’t have enough information to assume they are racist to educate them.
The flatmates are native Chinese (who I have major problem with – sexist, racist, but this was 10yrs ago), the Chinese that I met in my area are not perfect English, despite one has pretty much similar background as I do, moved here since high school age and been here well over 10yrs. And this is the current problem in Australia, where Chinese likes to hang out with Chinese, don’t practice their English, and their English isn’t great. (Again, I have no problem with Koreans only hang out with Koreans, and Chinese only hang out with Chinese, we all need the sense of belonging, however, at the same time, because of that, and their lack of trying to mingle with other race/nationalities, their English and attitudes are not improved). Also I don’t go to say Chinese clubs, because I can’t speak Chinese, so I can’t say how other Chinese are around the place. But on average, you will find better English speakers from all nationalities that isn’t Chinese lol. Japanese and Chinese are one I tend to find have strong accent/can’t speak English properly, then Koreans (few words here and there wrong but overall you can hear them well). And you learn a lot when you hang out with other groups, And you learn to be more accepting.
@littlefish I mean I would go so far out to say, black people have the right to call each other a derogatory term for ‘black person,’ but other races have no such right. similarly Asians can call each other chinks or laugh at each other’s chinky smiles and even make jokes about ourselves, but other races doing it would be inflammatory. likewise Asians asking each other’s ethnicity is a way to bond, not a way to differentiate. besides which, by me asking them where they’re from, does not come off as racist to me, if they ask me in the first place. and if they’re surprised by my question, I just schooled them into knowing how it feels to be asked. And in the event they had negative intentions, well, I just made them aware they’re ethnic too. I call that a win-win.
Its not always bonding between Asian with Asian. For example a chinese could look down on a Vietnamese or a Hong Kong born can look down on a chinese, a British born Chinese can look down on a mainland chinese….
@jimmyszeto okay I can only speak from experience. I’ve never experienced that, but I know it exists and when it does happen, it is absolutely wrong. this is even more reason to not ask that question, where are you from, to differentiate each other. I think we all have a consensus about that at this point. No matter how you look at it, you can’t tell the intentions behind someone asking this question. Some of them asking might be out of curiosity (not racist), other times they’re asking specifically because they’re racist. In which case, you should act accordingly. I just know that I haven’t experienced racism from my own race. So my answers can only be directed to other races.
My son is six and I just heard him recite the numbers in Spanish up to 20 at rapid speed. If I ask him how the name Rafael is normally used, I’m sure he would tell me and would know that he himself or anyone Chinese logically shouldn’t be associated with that name. Children know a lot more these days compared to when we were little. Countless hours clocked up on YouTube while no one coukd teach us anything when we were that young…
@jimmyszeto Lol YouTube, yea, my son is the same, surprising how many foreign language videos are on the suggested playlist of the English one. However, like I said I don’t see any kids go “are you from so and so?”. No kids ever ask me that, instead they would go: “why are you so fat?” (In my country, not in Australia) Lol! And tbqh, if people wants to make fun out of your name, they will for whatever reasons, you can’t escape it, everyone I know got sh1t on for their name, legitimate heritage and all. So again, moot point to say Rafael is bad because it’s spanish.
oh my gosh! This girl is just plain deceitful! So she has been planning how to lie the moment she got pregnant. She announced on July that she got engaged on Christmas just in case the paparazzi will find out that she got pregnant before marriage just to justify that she got pregnant after the proposal! Wearing extreme high heels and revealing clothes after returning to HK because she knows her tummy wasn’t showing or wants a miscarriage, announcing being pregnant at 3 months after wedding, announcing baby’s gender at 4 months after wedding, having very late baby’s shower(or she did it earlier but wont let her friends post it until late January), and even risking to fly out to Vietnam for babymoon to prove that she is 6-7 months pregnant!!! And please do not announce that the baby was premature! She has no love for her baby! I miss how parents used to name their baby after their ethnic backgrounds… People do draw conclusions based on someone’s name. Look how you guys already questioning the name Rafael! When he grows up, it will be a burden as he have to spell his name for people the rest of his life: Raphael vs Rafael, and people would want to know the back story, and he has none!
@jessehsuan Honestly don’t understand the Grace hate on this site. People here are always painting her as some mean deceptive woman but y’all wouldn’t do the same to the male or any men in general. But all female celebs = Witch? wth.
1. She’s been with Kevin for 3 years. Kevin is nearly reaching 50 years of age. It’s obvious they are in a stable relationship and if he wants kids (which he does obviously) then it’ll make sense for her to get pregnant, the earlier the better.
2. The kid does have a backstory, he is named after Rafa (Rafael Nadal). He could also be named after one of the seven Archangels, Raphael, who is responsible for Healing. Knowing the large enough Christian population in Hong Kong, many parents use biblical names.
3. It’s common for people to name their kids Western names now but also have their ethnic names.
4.I mean it’s not Abcde or whatever. Why are people giving her crap for giving their kid the most default and easy to pronounce spanish name.
It’s not like his name is Rafael-Carlos-Garcia-Juan-Santa-Maria-La-Jose-Santiago-Velázquez-Alejandro-Villas.
5. Lots of people name their kids Sofia, Maria, Camila, Hugo, Daniel, Martin, Adriana not knowing that it’s also Spanish.
Also congratulations to the couple.
@firenationazula nothing is wrong with her being pregnant early, it’s a blessing, but she’s lying and staging about it is the problem. I just wish how couples should either quiet about or admit about it, but staging is just….WRONG!
@jessehsuan I agree with you. People who lie through their teeth should expect backlash when the truth is exposed. In her case, it’s worse as the lie was told not just once but throughout the pregnancy. She staged everything to hide her shotgun pregnancy. I bet those pics of her babymoon were taken some time ago but posted only recently to match the timeline of her lie. No way could she have just gone on her babymoon just days before she popped. Yes and those high heels and revealing clothes in her early stage was to throw those sniffer pap dogs off her trail. If she had her way, she would probably lie low for the next 3 months and then re-emerge to post pics of her “new born”. Or wait another month and claim that she had a premature baby. What a fraud!
@passingby2 what about Kevin, or is it only Grace that you hate? Or are you trying to push a narrative that only females are this deceptive?
You said you hate liars but you literally said “I bet”, implying you are making falsified claims as well based on your bias views about her as well. Where’s the evidence on your bet? Celebrities also don’t post pics straight away due to privacy issues and so fans/paps won’t figure their location out and flock to the place.
Like I said, Kevin is getting old and they’ve been together for three years. They been planning on having a child ASAP bc of his age and they’re in a stable relationship, doesn’t matter whether they are married or not.
Isn’t the idea of shotgun marriage is when a couple were together for a way shorter period of time…i.e. Yang Mi & Hawick; or ZLY and FSF?
@firenationazula It takes 2 hands to clap. Both are liars. But Kevin was more discreet and referred all questions to Grace as instructed by her (so he said in an interview).
I said I bet, how is that a falsified claim? I didn’t say it was fact. It is common sense as well as airlines regulation that you do not fly beyond your 36th week. Grace uploaded the babymoon pics just days before she gave birth which would give people the impression that she was below 36 weeks pregnant at that time. Celebs normally update their IG with latest pics not those that are a few weeks old which is what she did. Thus it gives reasonable grounds to people to suspect her motive.
No one is begrudging them to have kids asap. Its only becos of the show they put up and their lies that make people indignant.
No, shotgun marriage is one that the couple gets married due to baby on the way. It doesn’t matter how long they’ve known each other.
@firenationazula yup, I agree with you, the hate for grace is so strong on this website that everything she does is just plain wrong >_> even naming her own child, apparently, however you name your child, you should be shameful unless you pick a commoner’s name. Hallelujah! Every name has a villain and a good figure who name after it soooooo it doesn’t matter at the end of the day. It’s not like she name him pilotinspektr! Yet people call her pretentious, etc. so what if she want to save face about the pregnancy? It could be for Kevin >_>? It could be for her family, people just can’t move on ~_~
I’m treating each subject as isolated cases and discussing based on opinion rather than have a favourite. From what I have seen on shows, my impression of Grace is that she is very genuine, straight speaking,cute girl. In comparison to Jacqueline who seemed arrogant,rude and argumentative. I can see why Kevin would find Grace very suitable because she does brighten the atmosphere with her personality. From what I’ve heard, Kevin in contrast has a cold, serious, formal personality.
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